What I, A Preterist Believes: Part 1

For centuries many Christians have debated scripture. The numerous denominations and interpretations have led to many disagreements, even to the point of alienating brethren as "heretics." Now the common excuse for seperation is that the true interpretation of the Bible cannot be known, or that many passages can have more than one interpretation. I believe the truth CAN be known, and my goal, in search of that truth, is to know the intent of the authors. When we decide to focus on what they were trying to say, and get away from the thought of "what is this saying to me," we will move closer to the truth than we ever have before. My goal is to explain the basics to preterist interpretation which I hold to be the truth concerning the "end times."

Principal One: God Is Always On Time! God may not work in the same time restrictions as we. That knowledge has led to various interpretations as to the timing of creation and other events. However, concerning prophecy, God always gave man a timetable and what was to be expected. In EVERY case of prophecy, he was on time according to OUR method of timing. Without this accuracy, not only would scriptural credibility be challenged, but the signs and warnings to those who were told to wait for that period of time would be moot. Confusion would take over, and every generation would be caught up in believing they were the ones to fulfill the prophecy.

1. The Egypt Example

Prophecy: Ge 15:13 - Then the LORD said to Abram, "Know of a surety that your descendants will be sojourners in a land that is not theirs, and will be slaves there, and they will be oppressed for four hundred years; Fulfillment On Time!

Ex 12:40 - The time that the people of Israel dwelt in Egypt was four hundred and thirty years. *NOTE: Israel was not oppressed 430 years. For their first years they were at peace under Josephs rule. So this difference in years is not a contradiction.

2. Israel’s Babylonian Captivity

Prophecy: Jer 25:11 - This whole land shall become a ruin and a waste, and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years. Jer 25:12 - Then after seventy years are completed, I will punish the king of Babylon and that nation, the land of the Chalde'ans, for their iniquity, says the LORD, making the land an everlasting waste. Jer 29:10 - For thus says the LORD: When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will visit you, and I will fulfil to you my promise and bring you back to this place.

Fulfillment: Zech 1:7 On the twenty-fourth day of the eleventh month which is the month of Shebat, in the second year of Darius, the word of the LORD came to Zechari'ah the son of Berechi'ah, son of Iddo, the prophet; and Zechari'ah said…..11 And they answered the angel of the LORD who was standing among the myrtle trees, 'We have patrolled the earth, and behold, all the earth remains at rest.' 12 Then the angel of the LORD said, 'O LORD of hosts, how long wilt thou have no mercy on Jerusalem and the cities of Judah, against which thou hast had indignation these seventy years?' 13 And the LORD answered gracious and comforting words to the angel who talked with me. 14 So the angel who talked with me said to me, 'Cry out, Thus says the LORD of hosts: I am exceedingly jealous for Jerusalem and for Zion. 15 And I am very angry with the nations that are at ease; for while I was angry but a little they furthered the disaster. 16 Therefore, thus says the LORD, I have returned to Jerusalem with compassion; my house shall be built in it, says the LORD of hosts, and the measuring line shall be stretched out over Jerusalem. 17 Cry again, Thus says the LORD of hosts: My cities shall again overflow with prosperity, and the LORD will again comfort Zion and again choose Jerusalem.'" 3. Daniels 70 Weeks

I will not go into the specifics but as almost every single Christian agrees, Christ began His ministry exactly 483 years from the “going forth to rebuild the temple.” (Daniel 9:25). Again God was right on time, according to the “box” he put Himself in to fulfill His promise to send the Messiah. Things do not get obscured, fuzzy or mixed up after this. God remained on time in all the aspects of His prophecies. Christ followed suit. Without timeliness, there is confusion. But the Apostles DID NOT teach confusion, they taught imminence because God would once again be on time.

4. Christ’s Declaration of Returning Within THAT Generation

The timing of His returned is linked primarily by defining the "end of the age of the gentiles."

Here is in very simple terms, what the "age of the gentiles" was!!

The time of the gentiles is the time that the Roman army shattered the power of the Holy people in AD 70.

Lu 21:24 - they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led captive among all nations; and Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Revelation and Daniel clean up this somehow misunderstood phrase.

Re 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Daniel 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

These are not coincidences. All of this happened as Christ said. Somehow the church made a simple event and complicated it. But just as Jesus said, and as long as was told to Daniel and John, it happened THEN!!

Luke21:20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. 21:21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are inside the city depart, and let not those who are out in the country enter it; 21:22 for these are days of vengeance, to fulfil all that is written. ................Lu 21:24 - they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led captive among all nations; and Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. ..............32 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away till all has taken place. ....... Re 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Daniel 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and swear by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

There is no coincidence that 37 years from Christ's ascention, Jerusalem was surrounded by armies (Luke 21:20) 3 1/2 years later the temple was utterly destroyed (Matt 23:38, 24:1-3) and the power of Judaism was SHATTERED as Daniel said (Daniel 12:7).

Yes, God was on time again. There is no more need for confusion. But just in case:

Matt 16:27 For the Son of man is to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay every man for what he has done. (The Resurrection). 16:28 Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."

Matt 10:23 - When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next; for truly, I say to you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel, before the Son of man comes.

Matt 24:34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away till all these things take place.

Heb 1:1 In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets; 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.

1 John 2:18 Children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come; therefore we know that it is the last hour.

Here is one very important example why timing is so important:

From John Noe's "The Only Solution to the Liberal Skeptic Attack"

"Even C.S. Lewis, the respected Christian apologist and author, we are embarrassed to report, said in 1960: 'Say what you like, we shall be told, the apocalyptic beliefs of the first Christians have been proved to be false. It is clear from the New Testament that they all expected the Second Coming in their own lifetime. And, worse still, they had a reason, and one which you will find very embarrassing. Their Master had told them so. He shared, and indeed created, their delusion. He said in so many words, ‘this generation shall not pass till all these things be done.’ And He was wrong. He clearly knew no more about the end of the world than anyone else. It is certainly the most embarrassing verse in the Bible.' - Essay "The World’s Last Night" (1960), found in The Essential C.S. Lewis, p-385. Yes my friend's God's timing was important!

Prov 13:12Hope deferred makes the heart sick, but a desire fulfilled is a tree of life.

Hab 2:3 For still the vision awaits its time; it hastens to the end--it will not lie. If it seem slow, wait for it; it will surely come, it will not delay.

Rev 10:6 and swore by him who lives for ever and ever, who created heaven and what is in it, the earth and what is in it, and the sea and what is in it, that there should be no more delay, 7 but that in the days of the trumpet call to be sounded by the seventh angel, the mystery of God, as he announced to his servants the prophets, should be fulfilled.

Principal 2: Salvation Can Not Be Applied Until the Second Coming

Many people believe that there was salvation before the final resurrection to occur. They teach today that our loved ones are in heaven, yet they continue to delay say His second coming is delayed. The problem with this though is death was not even defeated until the resurrection occurred. Yes Christ had the victory itself, yet victory over death was still in waiting. That is why the Apostles taught the HOPE of salvation. They did not teach it to be applied already.

1. The Dead Are Still In Hades Without the Resurrection of Daniel 12 Being Fulfilled

12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt….. 12:13 But you, go your way till the end; for you shall rest, and will arise to your inheritance at the end of the days."

Daniel would not rise until the end of the days spoken in this chapter. Those days include verse 2 and the final resurrection. Daniel did not rise with Christ!! Peter was given the same promise from our Lord. Peter would not be able to meet with the Lord until He returned to put death, the Last enemy, under His feet.

John 13:36 Simon Peter said to Him, "Lord, where are You going?" Jesus answered him, "Where I am going you cannot follow Me now, but you shall follow Me afterward." 37 Peter said to Him, "Lord, why can I not follow You now? I will lay down my life for Your sake." 38 Jesus answered him, "Will you lay down your life for My sake? Most assuredly, I say to you, the rooster shall not crow till you have denied Me three times. 14:1 "Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father's house are many mansions; F80 if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. F81 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. If Christ has not returned to receive them unto Himself, then they are not where He is!! Revelation itself declared Hades to be destroyed only after the resurrection.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, F109 and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death

Neither Peter nor any other Christian is with the Father in heaven if Christ has not returned.

2. Death Would NOT Be Defeated For the Christian Until the Daniel 12 Resurrection

1 Cor 15:24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death......... The writer of Hebrews affirmed that all had not yet been put under Christ's feet. In other words, Christ, though raised from the dead, had not put death into submission under Himself and would not, until He returned from the Father and raised the dead at the end of the days!

Heb 2:8 putting everything in subjection under his feet." Now in putting everything in subjection to him, he left nothing outside his control. As it is, WE DO NOT YET SEE everything in subjection to him.

Read again, until death was made His footstool, the New Covenant itself was not in effect!!

,Hebrews 10:13 from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. 14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified. 15 But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before, 16 "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them," F40 17 then He adds, "Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more." F41 18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.

1 Cor 15 tells us when death would finally be defeated. At the resurrection of the last day!!

51 Lo! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. 53 For this perishable nature must put on the imperishable, and this mortal nature must put on immortality. 54 When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory." 55 "O death, where is thy victory? O death, where is thy sting?" 56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Death would only be defeated at the "rapture"/resurrection!!

3. The "Hope of Salvation:" Salvation Taught as a Future Event

The language of hope, in and of itself proves that salvation was a future event longed for by the apostles. They understood Christ had defeated death for Himself, but that our High Priest had ascended to the Father to present Himself, a living sacrifice, worthy to save all men.

Heb 9:11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation) 12 he entered once for all into the Holy Place, taking not the blood of goats and calves but his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption. 13 For if the sprinkling of defiled persons with the blood of goats and bulls and with the ashes of a heifer sanctifies for the purification of the flesh, 14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify your conscience from dead works to serve the living God.

The issue at hand though is that He had not reappeared, to affirm that the sacrifice was accepted so that all who were awaiting redemption would know their sins were covered forever, by His blood. Hence the statement in verse 28:

28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

He was going to appear a SECOND time for salvation.

Paul used a language of hope to affirm in those who were waiting for this appearance for salvation. Let me first clear the way. Hope is for something you DO NOT already have. So that fact Paul taught it as a hope, confirms it's dependence on a second coming of Christ!

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

One does not hope for what he has, right?

Rom 8:24 For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? 8:25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.

Rom 12:12 Rejoice in your hope, be patient in tribulation, be constant in prayer.

Rom 13:11 Besides this you know what hour it is, how it is full time now for you to wake from sleep. For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed;

But NOT there yet!

What I, A Preterist Believes: Part 2

What I, A Preterist, Believes: Restoring Integrity and Acuuracy to Scripture - Part 2
3 Nov 2002 | Nathan DuBois 

Posted on November 3, 2002 at 11:37:59 AM CST by nate4one

Principal 3: Prophecy Is Filled With Symbolism Best Understood By the Intended Audience

I will briefly address the symbolism found in some of the prophecies. John Noe once said that it would be like if a person in the very far future were to find a drawing of a donkey and an elephant both dressed in red, white and blue, battling it out. A person in the future may have no idea what is being represented, however we who are American know it represents the two major parties of American politics. This same rule needs to be considered all throughout bible prophecy. What is confusing to us, probably made good sense to the intended audience of the books of prophecy.

1. The Day of Clouds!

Psalms 18:9 He bowed the heavens, and came down; thick darkness was under his feet. 10 He rode on a cherub, and flew; he came swiftly upon the wings of the wind. 11 He made darkness his covering around him, his canopy thick clouds dark with water. 12 Out of the brightness before him there broke through his clouds hailstones and coals of fire. 13 The LORD also thundered in the heavens, and the Most High uttered his voice, hailstones and coals of fire. 14 And he sent out his arrows, and scattered them; he flashed forth lightnings, and routed them. 15 Then the channels of the sea were seen, and the foundations of the world were laid bare, at thy rebuke, O LORD, at the blast of the breath of thy nostrils. 16 He reached from on high, he took me, he drew me out of many waters. 17 He delivered me from my strong enemy, and from those who hated me; for they were too mighty for me. 18 They came upon me in the day of my calamity; but the LORD was my stay. 19 He brought me forth into a broad place; he delivered me, because he delighted in me.

From the first deliverance from bondage God delivered His people using a cloud. Every atonement day God Himself descended in a cloud upon the tabernacle. Again, for deliverance from sin lasting one year. The fact Christ used the imagery of a cloud in His statements, to the fact that a cloud took Him into heaven, is no coincidence.

Acts 1:9 And when he had said this, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight.

Neither is the fact the men who appeared said He would return in a cloud.

Acts 1:11 and said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven."

Hint, in a cloud!!

God's shikinah glory cloud descended upon His one and only Son before. It was no coincidence.

Matt 17:5 He was still speaking, when lo, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and a voice from the cloud said, "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased; listen to him."

In this same way, He prophesied his own return in the glory cloud of God.

Matt 24:30 then will appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory;

Every Jew who was learned in the Law, which was most likely every Jew, would understand this same language. Though we may expect a literal appearance and imagine seeing a man standing on a cloud, they would picture the cloud of glory, descending to reward the righteous, to save them, and descending to judge the wicked, He would rule His kingdom forever, as spoken by the prophet Daniel.

. Daniel 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him.

The High Priest knew exactly what He was saying when He declared this glorious cloud coming in the midst of the trial. Is there any other reason it infuriated the High Priest? Christ was declaring Himself the Son of Man. Who alone has the authority to judge. Who would rule over His kingdom as Daniel saw. The High Priest knew exactly what Christ was declaring, and he called him a blasphemer and tore his robe for no other reason.

Matt 26:63 But Jesus was silent. And the high priest said to him, "I adjure you by the living God, tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God." 26:64 Jesus said to him, "You have said so. But I tell you, hereafter YOU WILL see the Son of man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven." 26:65 Then the high priest tore his robes, and said, "He has uttered blasphemy. Why do we still need witnesses? You have now heard his blasphemy.

The same man standing there in trial for blasphemy declared to be the Son of Man in Daniels prophecy.

I also believe the High Priest DID see Him. I believe every part of Jerusalem, every tribe of that land, who experienced the wrath of God upon that adulterous nation, SAW the shikinah glory cloud of God!

Christ was coming in judgment against the Jews in the shikinah cloud of God. Cloud language was used all throughout the Old Testament when God prophesied the destruction of one nation from another.

Jeremiah declares a cloud coming in judgment upon Jerusalem

Jer 4:11 At that time it will be said to this people and to Jerusalem, "A hot wind from the bare heights in the desert toward the daughter of my people, not to winnow or cleanse, 12 a wind too full for this comes for me. Now it is I who speak in judgment upon them." 13 Behold, he comes up like clouds, his chariots like the whirlwind; his horses are swifter than eagles--woe to us, for we are ruined! 14 O Jerusalem, wash your heart from wickedness, that you may be saved. How long shall your evil thoughts lodge within you? 15 For a voice declares from Dan and proclaims evil from Mount E'phraim. 16 Warn the nations that he is coming; announce to Jerusalem, "Besiegers come from a distant land; they shout against the cities of Judah. 17 Like keepers of a field are they against her round about, because she has rebelled against me, says the LORD. 18 Your ways and your doings have brought this upon you. This is your doom, and it is bitter; it has reached your very heart."

Proclamation against the nations

Ezekiel 30:1-4 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 "Son of man, prophesy, and say, Thus says the Lord GOD: "Wail, 'Alas for the day!' 3 For the day is near, the day of the LORD is near; it will be a day of clouds, a time of doom for the nations. 4 A sword shall come upon Egypt, and anguish shall be in Ethiopia, when the slain fall in Egypt, and her wealth is carried away, and her foundations are torn down.

God declares to bring back His people who were scattered on a day of clouds.

Ez 34:11 "For thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I, I myself will search for my sheep, and will seek them out. 12 As a shepherd seeks out his flock when some of his sheep have been scattered abroad, so will I seek out my sheep; and I will rescue them from all places where they have been scattered on a day of clouds and thick darkness.

The pattern of God's use of the clouds are clear. Christ used the same imagery to predict His return in judgment and salvation. Judgment against the Babylon of Revelation for the blood of the prophets and saints (Matt 23:31-38, Rev 6,17,19, Daniel 12:7). Judgment against Jerusalem for playing the harlot with other nations and rejecting their Messiah.

The winds are His chariot, the clouds the dust of His feet.

Na 1:3 The LORD is slow to anger and of great might, and the LORD will by no means clear the guilty. His way is in whirlwind and storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet.

2. Astrological Calamity

Just like language concerning clouds, astrological calamity was used to symbolize God's judgment. When God was going to bring one nation upon another in judgment to effectively remove forever the power of that government, He spoke in the language of the moon, stars and their destruction.

Obadiah gives the perfect link with bringing down a government, to bringing them down from the heavens. The pride of Edom was what was being addressed here.

1:3 The pride of your heart has deceived you, You who dwell in the clefts of the rock, Whose habitation is high; You who say in your heart, 'Who will bring me down to the ground?' 1:4 Though you ascend as high as the eagle, And though you set your nest among the stars, From there I will bring you down," says the Lord.

This is the setting, the attitude for using the language of the heavens. God would bring down the mighty and proud governments. He used astrological calamity as a symbolism of this.

Proclamation against Babylon

Isaiah 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD comes, cruel, with wrath and fierce anger, to make the earth a desolation and to destroy its sinners from it. 10 For the stars of the heavens and their constellations will not give their light; the sun will be dark at its rising and the moon will not shed its light. 11 I will punish the world for its evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; I will put an end to the pride of the arrogant, and lay low the haughtiness of the ruthless. 12 I will make men more rare than fine gold, and mankind than the gold of Ophir. 13 Therefore I will make the heavens tremble, and the earth will be shaken out of its place, at the wrath of the LORD of hosts in the day of his fierce anger. 14 And like a hunted gazelle, or like sheep with none to gather them, every man will turn to his own people, and every man will flee to his own land. 15 Whoever is found will be thrust through, and whoever is caught will fall by the sword. 16 Their infants will be dashed in pieces before their eyes; their houses will be plundered and their wives ravished. 17 Behold, I am stirring up the Medes against them, who have no regard for silver and do not delight in gold.

Note the last verse. This proclamation against Babylon was to be fulfilled by the Medes!! Therefore the calamity in the heavens happened, or it is hyperbolic language!

Ezekiel 32:1-16 In the twelfth year, in the twelfth month, on the first day of the month, the word of the LORD came to me: 2 "Son of man, raise a lamentation over Pharaoh king of Egypt, and say to him: "You consider yourself a lion among the nations, but you are like a dragon in the seas; you burst forth in your rivers, trouble the waters with your feet, and foul their rivers. 3 Thus says the Lord GOD: I will throw my net over you with a host of many peoples; and I will haul you up in my dragnet. 4 And I will cast you on the ground, on the open field I will fling you, and will cause all the birds of the air to settle on you, and I will gorge the beasts of the whole earth with you. 5 I will strew your flesh upon the mountains, and fill the valleys with your carcass. 6 I will drench the land even to the mountains with your flowing blood; and the watercourses will be full of you. 7 When I blot you out, I will cover the heavens, and make their stars dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give its light. 8 All the bright lights of heaven will I make dark over you, and put darkness upon your land, says the Lord GOD. 9 "I will trouble the hearts of many peoples, when I carry you captive among the nations, into the countries which you have not known. 10 I will make many peoples appalled at you, and their kings shall shudder because of you, when I brandish my sword before them; they shall tremble every moment, every one for his own life, on the day of your downfall. 11 For thus says the Lord GOD: The sword of the king of Babylon shall come upon you.

Once again against Egypt God proclaimed cataclysmic events of the heavens and earth. Declaring the mountains to flow with their blood and the heavens to not give light. Prophetic use of this descriptive language fulfilled by the Babylonians. A literal destruction of Egypt, described symbolically by the prophet using the stars and moon.

More examples

Joel 2:9 They leap upon the city, they run upon the walls; they climb up into the houses, they enter through the windows like a thief. 10 The earth quakes before them, the heavens tremble. The sun and the moon are darkened, and the stars withdraw their shining. 11 The LORD utters his voice before his army, for his host is exceedingly great; he that executes his word is powerful. For the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; who can endure it?

Joel 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes, in the valley of decision! For the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision. 15 The sun and the moon are darkened, and the stars withdraw their shining. 16 And the LORD roars from Zion, and utters his voice from Jerusalem, and the heavens and the earth shake. But the LORD is a refuge to his people, a stronghold to the people of Israel. 17 "So you shall know that I am the LORD your God, who dwell in Zion, my holy mountain. And Jerusalem shall be holy and strangers shall never again pass through it.

In the same fashion, Christ prophesied a great tribulation to come upon Jerusalem. He would return to punish them for their rejection and murder of Him, their Messiah. For the blood of the prophets and martyrs He would return in vengeance, upon those very 1st century Jews.

He used the same language as the Old Testament prophets.

Matt 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken; 30 then will appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory; 31 and he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

What a glorious picture our Lord proclaiming the deliverance from that 'wicked and perverse generation" which would bring around the gathering of His elect into His presence (1 Thess 4:17)!! The Harlot of Revelation, Babylon, who was guilty of shedding the blood of the prophets and saints (none other than Jerusalem), would be brought down, destroyed for their wickedness and broken covenant with the God of all and His Son! Which would ultimately bring freedom to the church and God's presence would remain with man forever, in a New Covenant with all men.

AMEN!!!

3. Symbolism of Harlotry - Babylon of Revelation

For someone to be a harlot, and adulterous, you need to have a covenant with someone. You cannot "cheat on" a wife or husband without first being married. God declared the Babylon of Revelation to be a harlot city. This could only fit Jerusalem because the Jews were the only nation to have a covenant with God.

Babylon of Revelation was, in fact, Jerusalem of the 1st century.

Matthew 23:30 saying, 'If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.' 23:31 Thus you witness against yourselves, that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 23:32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers.

Out of their pride, the Pharisees in the temple had been saying that they would not have murdered the prophets as their fathers did. Christ then declares the punishment that belongs to their fathers for those murders, as well as for their guilt, as they were about to kill Him and His saints over the next 37 years!

Read:

23:33 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell? 23:34 Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from town to town, 23:35 that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of innocent Abel to the blood of Zechari'ah the son of Barachi'ah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar.

Christ has just declared THE ONE AND ONLY TIME OF VENGEANCE upon their heads. Again, He included the blood of the prophets past and the blood of the future martyrs to be counted against them.

23:36 Truly, I say to you, all this will come upon this generation. 23:37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, killing the prophets and stoning those who are sent to you! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not! 23:38 Behold, your house is forsaken and desolate.

The end of this judgment and the sign that what Christ had determined actually occurred would be that their temple would be desolated.

Christ had just declared the last week of the 70 weeks of Daniel would come against those very Pharisees. For the murders of their fathers, for their murder of the Messiah and for the future murders of the saints.

Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand that from the going forth of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time. Dan 9:26 And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off, and shall have nothing; and the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war; desolations are decreed. Dan 9:27 And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week; and for half of the week he shall cause sacrifice and offering to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator."

There is 1 time of vengeance in scripture, this one in Matthew 23 which decreed the "Day of the Lord and the consummation of the 70 weeks of Daniel on that very generation of Jewish leaders.

In perfect concert with Christ's words, the end of the age would come when the power of the holy people had been shattered.

Dan 12:8 I heard, but I did not understand. Then I said, "O my lord, what shall be the issue of these things?" Dan 12:9 He said, "Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end. Dan 12:10 Many shall purify themselves, and make themselves white, and be refined; but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand; but those who are wise shall understand. Dan 12:11 And from the time that the continual burnt offering is taken away, and the abomination that makes desolate is set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Dan 12:12 Blessed is he who waits and comes to the thousand three hundred and thirty-five days. Dan 12:13 But go your way till the end; and you shall rest, and shall stand in your allotted place at the end of the days."

Again, the resurrection, Daniel's own, would be fulfilled at the end of "the time of vengeance." God accomplished all, in some way shape or form, that He wanted to accomplish in the "end of the age" by the time Jerusalem and it's temple fell.

The "time of vengeance" gives us the link for one more key of prophecy. The one and only "end times" decreed "time of vengeance" was to be taken out upon the Babylon, the harlot of Revelation!

No mistake, Jerusalem is the "harlot" (Babylon) of Revelation!

Rev 6:9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne; 10 they cried out with a loud voice, "O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before thou wilt judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell upon the earth?" 11 Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.

Just as Christ had declared that the future blood of the martyrs would be taken out on their heads, this prophecy shows us that in spite of the cries for vengeance for their righteous blood, the time for "filling up the measure of your fathers" (Matthew 23:32) had to be completed.

Revelation further links "the time of vengeance" with the harlot of Revelation in chapter 17:

Rev 17:1 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, "Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who is seated upon many waters, Rev 17:2 with whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and with the wine of whose fornication the dwellers on earth have become drunk…….Rev 17:16 And the ten horns that you saw, they and the beast will hate the harlot; they will make her desolate and naked, and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire, Rev 17:17 for God has put it into their hearts to carry out his purpose by being of one mind and giving over their royal power to the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. "

The time that was to be fulfilled was "the time of vengeance" and the "end of the days" at which time Daniel and all who had died under the Old Covenant would be raised. Ushering in a completed, consummated New Covenant.

The last and most obvious case closing proof that the harlot Babylon was Jerusalem, on whom "the time of vengeance" was to come, is Revelation 19:1-2.

Revelation 19:1 After this I heard what seemed to be the loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, crying, "Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God, 2 for his judgments are true and just; he has judged the great harlot who corrupted the earth with her fornication, and he has avenged on her the blood of his servants."

I believe Christ and His Apostle John have laid it out very clear.

Pet Peeves...Police Check Points!!!

I am always amazed when the average citizen freely gives up their rights to privacy and over all, basic unimpeeded activities, so that the police can randomly search citizens who have shown no sign of committing a crime and caused no reason for suspicion. Once again the free American allows a police state in where the civil servant becomes the MASTER in order to "protect" or "prevent" us from being the victim of or causing crime. It is a gross violation of my rights to force me to stop what I am doing to be inspected by police for no reason other than a random check for the purposes of crime prevention.

Many out there, and more so on the Conservative side, defend these actions claiming if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear. The other aspect is the respect the conservative movement gives the police and the pedestal they are placed on that allows their train of thought to leave the realm of liberty, and move into the realm of crime prevention by intrusion. They site the number of DUI arrests, illegals caught, and unlicensed drivers found as the reason these checkpoints are so necessary. Statistics on the amount of deaths due to DUI accidents and incidents involving unlicensed drivers are used to support these stops.

I can see how the people who support these measures make their case, but again I believe their logic comes from a skewed ideal and inconsistant view of governments role. Conservativism mandates that the rights of the people and the limit of governments remain at the highest priority. The smaller, less impeeding the government, the better. However, as I have pointed out before, this argument is only used against those who seek to expand social agendas through government. The conservative movement completely leaves the reservation when it comes to growing the military or police force beyond control.

It is beyond control!! There is no point or possibility for the American citizens today to rise up against tyranny. For every growth in military or the police state America goes farther down the path of tyranny. The fascism of the right wing in America is a dangerous road.

So police checkpoints. Just another measure to keep us "safe?" Again, what is your value system in regards to government? Are you a true conservative who believes that the government should remain small and completely unintrusive to the law abiding citizen? Is liberty America's gospel or is safety? Are you one of those who believes we should take a certain amount of risk in order to preserve freedom and limit government control? Personally I have absolutely no problem risking my life for liberty. That is what every police officer or military member should have understood when taking the oath. The average citizen needs to be willing to assume some risk to avoid becoming a police state.

Everytime the right wing comes out in support of preventative police measures and places the value of the civil servant and the safety of the citizen over the LIBERTY of the citizen, we have marched farther down the tyrannical road. The real debate needs to be on the topic of taking back our identity and deciding, do we believe in police crime PREVENTION or LAW ENFORCEMENT. One assumes an intrusive pre-crime role and can abuse every possibility of intrusion not specifically coverd by the Constitution, the other assumes a reactive state in which justice for the victim is granted by the State and done so in such a severe manner that crime is prevented because the justice for others serves as a deterant to the would be criminal.

The problem will not go away unless we rise up in one voice against these abuses of power. We must demand liberty over safety. We must also change the mindset in America to be once again on the side of the victim, not the criminal. The key to crime prevention is not the loss of civil liberties and the intrusion of law enforcement. The key to crime prevention is deterrence through swift and sever punishment of convicted criminals.

For Liberty!

Zimmerman: This Is NOT About Gun Rights, It's About Vigilantes

Your leaving dads home....it's late and you just stopped by the convenience store to buy candy and ice tea.  Your a teen with a split home, maybe an ego, an athlete, and probably a tough kid.  You are unarmed and headed home.  You look behind you and notice a sulking, shady figure following you, seems to be stalking you...you might feel excitement, you might feel intimidated, you may very well be scared.

Combat stress classes tell us the body is designed to do two things when you receive and adrenaline spike from fear of the unknown: fight or flight.  Many people when being stalked might chose flight, others who feel threatened, maybe grew up in a tough neighborhood, might choose fight.  What would you choose? Most of us don't know, but many of us are quick to judge the actions of others with different responses.  Self defense, that animal instinct to protect oneself can be strong.  There are few Marines I know who would choose flight in a situation like this.  In today's age, I doubt being stalked and snuck behind would lead to flight by almost anyone...most tough young kids would address the stalker.

So there are some basic questions:

1.  Why are you being followed?

2.  Are you breaking any laws?

3.  If you confront the stalker and he poses a threat, what will you do?

Most people want to defend Zimmerman based on the fear that a conviction will lead to more gun control.  Others are simply racist and believe Treyvon was stalked, confronted and murdered based on him being black wearing a hoodie.  Here is the point, we will NEVER know for sure what happened because we only have one side of the story.  Some facts we do know.

1.  Zimmerman's statement begins with an explanation of break ins in the past and why he had a neighborhood watch.  

2..  Zimmerman was driving to the store, armed, had 911 on the phone and followed Treyvon.  He found multiple reasons to get out of his car.

3.  Treyvon clearly knew he was being followed after stopping at a convenience store and felt threatened, which explains the question"do you have a problem."  

Based on Zimmerman's actions, ignoring the police instructions, justification of why he is so paranoid leading the statement to police, and getting out of his car multiple times, he clearly DID have a problem.  The kid was big, but he was NOT armed, Zimmerman was.  Anyone who also knows human nature, or the character of a person willing to "pack heat," disobey the 911 operator, and get out of his car multiple times to follow Treyvon, knows Zimmerman DID have a problem, and most likely is lying when he says he stated "NO" when asked if he had a problem.  Somehow this neighborhood watch starting, gun carrying, 911 operator ignoring, follower of people because they look suspicious, is Mr. Meek "no" [i don't have a problem]???

Sometimes finding justice boils down to a few basic facts.  Zimmerman was armed, suspicious of a black male in his community, ignored authorities himself, and was in some way confronted or even himself confrontational.  And frankly, an unarmed kid leaving dads house is dead. Period.

  Even after shooting an unarmed kid, he admits holding Treyvon's hands down and asking for help to restrain him!!!  That alone is sick!  He never once in his head clicked into, "damn, I just shot this guy, this guy is in shock, I need to start thinking about addressing the fact he might die!"  Basically, dude started the fight by disobeying authorities and evoking the "fight or flight" instinct in Treyvon.  He was loosing the fight he inevitably started, and he killed a kid.  

I am not afraid of loosing my gun rights because of this case and will not be coaxed into defending a clearly guilty man because of fear.  I am also exposed to way too many cultures in the military and way to many young people and know Zimmerman's actions begged for a fight.   I know that Zimmerman killed an unarmed kid ONLY because HE put himself in the wrong place when he was told not to.  The fact is, Zimmerman is guilty of at minimum manslaughter.  

I wonder why there are less conservatives willing to speak for the dead boy named Treyvon than for the authority ignoring, confrontational (following him and getting out of the car while packing heat alone  PROVES he is a confrontational man) Zimmerman.  If we are on the wrong side of this one, the right wing will deserve its criticism of racist...because I have read it all, debated it many times, and there is simply no other defense for this murderer.  You don't KILL because you are losing a fight YOU picked by scaring a kid into his "fight" response after disobeying authorities.  I'm not afraid of losing gun rights, because murderers should be punished.  Zimmerman is not the innocent man carrying a gun, he is the criminal who used it to kill a kid, like any other criminal.  

The Conservative Case Against Arizona's Immigration Law

I have friends who have rallied with the minutemen and I have family who are Hispanic that are very opposed to illegal immigration as I am. Despite their concerns, I must and always will side with our nations ideals and the ideals of the Founding Fathers who gave birth to it. Let me explain the principles that first guide my opposition.

I believe that Constitutionally, no person within the United States has the right to be searched, harassed, or otherwise encumbered by the government or any law enforcement without first being directly suspected of committing a crime. In order to be suspected of committing that crime there should be a warrant issued or overwhelming probable cause present to demand my immediate search or retention. Without this, no person within the United States should be subject to government intrusion of any kind. 

Article IV: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

The key to this entire article is “and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation…” People sometimes separate these conditions for search, but they cannot be separated and they require something before any warrant can be issued or immediate search take place; probable cause supported by oath/affirmation.

So first, before attacking my opposition to this Arizona law ask yourself; 

“Does Uncle Sam have the constitutional right to search me without having oath or affirmation that I have committed a crime?”

And second; “ Does the government have the right to search me anywhere they wish or are they restricted to particulars as to the place, persons and things to be searched, in order to obtain or for that matter, NOT obtain evidence, until they are satisfied that I have or haven’t committed the crime?"

So before any law is enacted or supported concerning government intrusion, ask those questions, and apply them to YOUR person and YOUR property.  Now, the best way to describe why I am, and any conservative should be, against this law is to tell it through my story of the one encounter I had with the minutemen in Fallbrook, Ca. 

While making a purchase at the gas station in Fallbrook, the teller began complaining of the minutemen shouting at the Hispanic men who were standing on the driveway corner. She said she wanted them all to go away because it was irritating. I paid for my water and then stepped out and just observed. I saw minutemen protesters holding signs and shouting at the Hispanic males who were about five to ten in number and were not saying anything. The presumption is that they were waiting for work or someone to hire them for odd jobs or labor. Watching this I had one series of questions pop into my mind that made the whole encounter happen the way it did.

First: How did the minutemen know these Hispanics were not legal?

Second: How can these minutemen go about finding out for sure these men are in fact illegal so that they can be arrested.

Third: in the ignorance of answers to both questions, and knowing a tad about the culture of the Hispanic poor, what exactly is wrong with men waiting on the side of a street corner in order to obtain an odd job to make a little bit of money?

So, with these questions I drove in between the two groups who were separated by the driveway entrance and rolled down my window to ask the minutemen question number one. The answer was an eye opener…

Me: “I got a question, how do you know these men you are shouting at and about are, in fact, illegal?”

Answer: “It doesn’t matter.”

Me: “What do you mean it doesn’t matter, so is it a race thing?”

Answer: “It doesn’t matter.”

Now with my understanding that this white female didn’t care to know for sure if the men they were mad at were illegal, all the flags went up. Is this more about race? What is it you are really mad about? What then gives you the need to protest men you aren’t even sure are illegal? So I asked my second question.

Me: “Well how can you find out if these men are not illegal? (At this point the head man of the groups and his camera man ran up to me demanding me to repeat my questions which I did). How do you know these men are illegal? Because if they are not your protests are pointless! Even if they are illegal, what are they doing that is bad enough that potential American citizens (or legal guests) should be harassed and searched or even arrested (if no papers are on their person) ? If they are citizens, or at least if you cannot legally or constitutionally prove they are not, your protests become void and hollow.

Answer: “If they are citizens why are they not at the unemployment lines like all the other Americans or at temporary job agencies instead of our here looking to work for cash or under the table…”

Me: (What I said) “Listen, you have no proof they are NOT citizens, you have no way to prove it without violating their constitutional civil rights. Your friend here doesn’t even care if they are illegal so I assume for her it is a race issue. You would trample the constitution just because you are pissed and unwilling to do the work they are willing to do. You have no clue about liberty.”

WHAT I SHOULD HAVE SAID: The constitution does not allow for you to have these men searched simply because they stand on a corner looking for work. Civil rights cannot be violated simply because in their culture they would break their back in the fields rather than beg on the street corners like the American homeless do. You have no proof that they are illegal and yet you are out in force…and it boils down to one reason…because they are Hispanic men standing on a street corner. That is the extent of your probable cause. Not only this, but your excuse as to why this behavior IS probable cause even more disturbing. Minutemen are typically American conservatives of the Republican party. You should OPPOSE government welfare and unemployment handouts. You should be applauding the willingness to make it on your own and break your back for a living instead of stealing taxpayer dollars while you look through the want ads and wait on temp agencies to find you your job! Are you that much of a hypocrite, that your probable cause boils down to you wanting these Hispanic men to cower to a way of life which you, every other day of the week, swear up and down you do not even support??!!

The law in Arizona supports a slippery slope to American tyranny and fascism. It allows law enforcement to essentially card and I. D. Americans simply because they are Hispanic and are not conforming to the welfare system of America which even now the Republican so-called conservatives are trying to empower rather than condemn. Are we really willing to hand over more freedom to police officers simply to react to an illegal immigrant problem that this law will not even make a dent in? Is racial profiling and warrantless violations of the 4th Amendment worth it?  Really?

Why I Don't Cry "Buy Made In America"

Not to be "that guy" ... but just a reminder; We threw the tea into the harbor back in the day because 

1. They MADE us "buy British" and then 

2. Taxed it unfairly. 

So just sayin...the "buy 'made in America' " cry is not always patriotic...sometimes Walmart is more of a patriotic concept, shipping for the the cheapest goods, made in China, for the larger profits, offering Americans the most jobs and even benefit packages for cheap labor positions, is WAY more patriotic than buying that Chevy who accepts tax payer bailouts and uses "American Made" to rip us off more.

John Hancock was a notorious smuggler.

Christians Losing the Gay Rights Battle Due To the Wrong Argument

Christians have been arguing the gay rights issue from a perspective of the Bible. Although the issue is very Biblical, it is not the way to beat people who care nothing about what God says. It needs to be beaten by addressing the argument from THEIR own morality perspective. They insist that morality is relative. That this issue is about equal rights and that homosexuality is a normal and natural way of life for some people. It goes so far to even say that being strait is NOT human nature. Children in middle school are having pro-gay literature shoved down their throat. With absolutely NO evidence, scientists have been teaching that this is genetic. Children with Christian values get told that even animals in nature have gay tendencies. So lets go there first. So every morning my dog wakes up, she never gets dressed. Naked...I send her out or take her out in public, and anywhere she pleases, she poops. No matter whose looking. If guests are over, and I let my "naked" dog roam the house, she sometimes likes to go "spread eagle" in front of EVERYBODY and " clean" herself. QUESTION: Can I do these things? Even the most hard core pro gay advocate would probably say that showing up naked to work and "cleaning" myself in front of everyone is WAY beyond what is moral even in their morality. What about having harems, just like a lion pack? Would that make me a pig? Are you weaker than me? Better run faster if I get hungry. Or if by race or culture we "gang" up like meerkats and kill the rival "meerkats" its ok? A lot of people would say that these comments are extreme, or that my desires to be like a lion are ignorant and barbaric. These are examples why the argument "it's natural because animals do it" is ignorant. These arguments hold no water. No one can ever tell me that because animals naturally do something, that somehow it then makes it "ok" or "moral" or "natural" for humans to do it. Even that crowd has moral standards that go against acting like animals, because humans are not just simply animals. Also throughout America there seems to be no opposition to the idea that this is a civil rights issue. The equating of the plight of the African American to the homosexual seems to be accepted. Even the gay rights movement acknowledges that the degrees of rights violation are much less for the gay American and do not encompass as much of their life as it did for the African American. For women it is the same. One simply does not equal the other. Simply due to the fact that a black American is recognized anywhere and discriminated against because of their looks, and likewise a female is unmistakably a female (generally speaking), the violations of their rights were much more wide spread. Where as a homosexual is only a known homosexual if they express those desires to their surroundings. The difference is one is an unalterable fact of who they are (generally speaking black or female) vs. the other is an issue of the behavior or lifestyle they exhibit. Right off the bat this should tell us something about the nature of the gay rights argument. Is it legitimate to say that discrimination against gays is a civil rights issue? Is it a legitimate argument to say that the behavior of an individual is enough to qualify someone as a minority? What determines who is a minority or what is discrimination? A black American is black because they are born that way. This obvious characteristic is something that is seen and either tolerated or not tolerated depending on someone's prejudice. The same goes for women. However, the only way someone knows you are a homosexual is if you tell them or if your personal life is lived in public as a normally accepted male and female couple would live theirs. So the argument is whether the behavior of the homosexual deserves to be legitimized as an accepted cultural behavior, put on par with traditional marriage, or whether their behavior is their own, but it is not required to be accepted by the majority. For African Americans, women, handicapped people, etc. the answer is easy. They didn't chose what they are therefore to hold it against them is wrong. This is not the case for the homosexual. The biggest reason this is not the case for the homosexual is because we are not dealing with a state of being, but with behavior. To be gay requires homosexual behavior. It is not simply BEING....it is DOING a behavior that is gay in nature. It is not possible to discriminate against someones behavior, because behavior by definition is CHOICE. There is no other option, and acting on anyone's passions is always a choice, it is never just a matter of fact. The gay community gets offended when we mention the desires of pedophiles and thieves and state that denying those actions are required by law. Although homosexual behavior is more victimless than those actions, being gay is still ACTION, and therefore not an issue of discrimination. To win this argument, Christians need to stop arguing with non-Christians using the Bible, but need to address the issues by changing and shutting down the arguments of the other side by making their claims completely illegitimate. Make them admit morality does matter to them, but for them it is relative, and therefore subject to the whims of the majority like any other legislated behavior that is based on the values of the majority. Last but not least, the taxpayer issue looms large. If tax benefits are granted to married couples, taxpayers have aright to determine who gets those benefits. The government should not be involved in an issue like marriage and theright answer is to have the government and benefits out of marriage all together, but since this is not the case, taxpayers have a say where their money goes. So these three arguments are where Christians should focus their energy: 1. Humans are not animals 2. The gay rights issue is NOT a discrimination issue, but a behavioral one. 3. The marriage issue should not at all be a government one, but since it is, we should have a say where our tax dollar benefits go. THEIDEALNATE